The best investment is to make yourself more marketable/employable, especially at a young age. The job market is only going to get tougher -- probably a lot tougher.
Job market tougher = depends on what your job is. There are always careers that are expanding and others that are contracting.
Before globalization made the world really small, I would have agreed wholeheartedly with this statement.
Now I can't help but halfheartedly agree, as many jobs are contracting (due to sourcing them in other countries and giving them to robots) and I don't think the expansion in other sectors is compensating fast enough.
I think to the OP's initial point, you can't really outsource or automate plumbers and electricians (at least not yet). That's the kind of investment someone like that can make in themselves that will pay off way bigger in the long run.
But that opens new jobs aswell. Upkeep on the robots, making the parts.. ect.. Just because one job went away it doesnt mean there arnt other jobs opening.
Of course, but the quantity of jobs is far fewer. There are robots making the robots. And if design is solid, maintenance is next to nil. Sure, someone has to supervise that stuff, but it's one person instead of five or 10.
I may be wrong. It's been a while since I checked the job statistics but when I did (several years ago), automation was leading to fewer jobs in manufacturing, but more jobs overall. I believe this was attributed to jobs being a non-zero sum game, similar to money (every dollar you earned is not equivalent to a loss from someone else).
Also, as someone who is graduating college with a degree in mechanical engineering and going into manufacturing, I can tell you first hand that robots are stupid. Complex, yes. But also stupid.
It is a retarded argument that is made during any advance in technology.
"In fifty years we are going to have the whole lot of farmers replaced by pieces of machinery, this cotton gin is just the beginning Billy Bob soon we will all be replaced and what then? Dey terk er jerbs!"
People adapt to new services, just because some become obsolete doesn't mean humans won't start having new services to offer.
This idea defies macroeconomic truths. Jobs do not "go away" due to replacing work with robots, the wealth opportunity due to inelastic demands (which ultimately drive elastic demands) simply leaks into other areas.
This equal-opposite "force" is obvious to the large group of workers at an automobile factory that lose their jobs to robots - but they only see the one side. It's harder to show/convince in other sectors that part of their growth is due to the automation that replaced workers in another.
This fallacy is really common and I completely understand why it's made - it's not an easy one to see and understand. But it's still frustrating to see.
Actually my experience is the opposite. I am a contractor for both of the 2 largest companies in their field. No I'm not naming them. The last 10 years or so their MO is to fire people once they he in their 40s/50s and are managers making 70-80k a year. They get college grads and put the in those positions at 25k a year. Some make it if not there's always another fresh graduate. Its really weird seeing the top brass is all in their late 50s to early 70s and then almost no one in their 40s or even late 30s. These college grads get a few raises and hit their mid 30s they get canned for the next graduate. These companies are paying managers the same rate they paid new employees in 1999.
Yep, so invest in looking young and not being loyal to a single employer. Because no single employer is going to be loyal to YOU.
Which makes the job market tougher for the older folks and pays less for the younger folks.
Which means your experience is reinforcing the fact that the job market is tougher.
invest in looking young and not being loyal to a single employer. Because no single employer is going to be loyal to YOU
But even that only works up until a certain point, because interviewers will start to circular-file your resume and if you get past that, begin asking in interviews why the constant changing employer.
Every 4 years you should advance within the organization or change employers. Otherwise it looks like you are unmotivated to both your current employer and prospective employers.
The old days of hold a stable job are exactly that: old days.
Companies want it all. You to be unwaveringly loyal to them and stick around, you to be moving up constantly, and for them to have zero loyalty to you to meet both those prerequisites.
Well that's a business plan, but not exactly a long term one. Not sure what industry you work for, but what do they think is going to happen when the 50-70 year olds retire? No one will be left with the knowledge to run the company. On top of that, do college grads really do the same quality of work that people with 10-15 years experience do? If so, it must be a pretty simple position that doesn't benefit from experience or skills.
No the quality of work isn't even close. The thing is these two companies completely dominate their industry to where the number 3 is just a small regional company so their customers are stuck with it. I'm not sure what's going to happen over the next 10-15 years . The brass is going to have to start keeping some of these guys around.
Many law firms do a version of this. New associates are hired, they have 8 years give or take to be on the partner track and I'd not they're canned. Only 5% or so make partner in Many large firms, the rest branch out and look for other firms.
I wouldn't say that's terrible, though, because how many people actually want to stay in biglaw? Take a look at TLS. I think the people who actually enjoy what they do in biglaw are a severe minority.
Plus, biglaw opens up some good exit options for the people who do leave. I'm not saying that every case of a person leaving is positive, but it's a good way to pay off loans and gain experience before you head off to the job you really want as a lawyer (in-house, government, PI, etc.)
To some extent that's true about exit options. I worked in Texas big law, in litigation, and ended up in government after four years. But my salary in government is less than half of what I made before. Did I do work half the hours, and have a much better quality of life.
Many reasons. Automation will reduce the overall number of available jobs, which will in turn increase competition for the remainder. University education is becoming more and more common, meaning the barrier to entry, even into more basic jobs, is constantly rising. These trends show no sign of slowing down, which, combined with other factors, is probably what /u/twblalock is reffering to when he says the job market will only get tougher.
Just starting up a automation and controls program, i hope i'm going down the right route
why do you think the job market will be tougher
I'm biased by tech work, but all the grunt-level "mailroom" type of jobs and up are now handled by temps and contract workers, with fulltime employees limited to jobs that "add value" to the company. Everyone else is disposable.
If a computer or a robot can replace your job it will. Most banking jobs will disappear while the number of ATM maintenance people will go up. Lots of engineering jobs can be replaced by computer programs the same way AMD and Intel build their CPU's.
Find an industry where the cost of developing software would be more than replacing the worker.
Or get into the software industry. Saw the writing on the wall so I'm currently getting a Master's in Information Systems.
Corporate Software is the sweatshop of this century.
You'll still get mentally burned out, get Carpal Tunnel and Arthritis in your hands and get fired when you're in your mid 40's for a new grad.
It's only viable long-term if you work for yourself.
That's why I'm focusing on management track instead of development. :)
You think managers don't burn out staying up with developers till 2 am resolving an issue, try to meet impossible deadlines and deal with middle management offshore?
IT management is not so much better than IT development.
Wayyyyy too many kids going to college now. Not enough doing physical trades. I think my local trade school averages about 90% job placement rate spread throughout their school, between plumbing, electricians, HVAC, firefighters, etc.. I can almost guarantee you a university does not have that. It's literally flooding the market with potential employees for jobs that just do not exist right now.
As a pipeline pipefitter who is going back to school (already have a bachelors degree) I am tired of hearing people say this. You want to go freeze your balls off all winter long and then have to balance productivity with not getting heat stroke through the summer? Because I am fucking tired of it. Do you want to have blown out knees, a fucked up back and a shoulder that isn't right? How about garunteed arthritis from banging your knuckles trying to crank a wrench in tight places for 40 hours a week? Want to learn how to weld? Great. Go look up manganese and see what the long term side affects are. You know how many guys I work with that are over 40 that can still walk around and bend over normally? None. Do you know how many guys know at least one person that died on the job? All of them. So yea, if you don't care about destroying your body it is a great way to make a living
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I come from a blue collar family. My father was a printer in a paper factory from 1953 - 1995. His knees and hips have no cartilage. He had a knee replaced, but he can barely walk anymore from all the years of working on a concrete floor.
My brother is a concrete worker. He is in his 50's. He had been treated for skin cancer twice (yes, he wearts a t-shirt and sunscreen). He has had heat stroke so bad and so often he laughs it off now. His back is shot. He is now so tired after working all day, that he can barely make it to his son's baseball games.
My other brother is a machine operator. He walks a concrete floor, he has had a hand crushed, had a machine mis-hap that broke his knee and four surgeries and 20 years later he is in pain all the time.
My other family members are all carpenters. Work is hard to come by, steady work is nearly impossible. They have all dealt with long term unemployment, lay-offs, terrible working conditions and piss poor benefits.
Whenever they hear someone tell their kids to learn a trade, they universally call bullshit. It is hard work and there is a reason why they tell their kids to go to college.
It is hard work and there is a reason why they tell their kids to go to college.
It seems like a never-ending cycle. One guy busts his ass in a hard labor, blue-collar job, thinks "Holy shit this sucks, I'm telling my kid to go to college."
His son or daughter goes to college, gets out in the world, struggles mightily because there's a whole generation of people just like them fighting for the same white-collar, college-educated jobs. Thinks to themself "This sucks. I owe tens (if not hundreds) of thousands in student loans, and yet I can't find a job relevant to my education. It's nigh-impossible to get a job below my education level because they all (correctly) think that I'd jump ship in a second if something better paying related to my college degree came along. I'm sending my kids to a trade school."
You know that you don't just become a banker right? Tons of people want to go into banking because the pay is great, so competition is fucking crazy. Expect to see people who have been put on this career path since they were 14, with a 3.9 GPA and double majors in competitive subjects. Nice circlejerk though.
It's almost like most people don't get to live on easy street...
Life is just hard. Whichever way you chose to go, it's tough to be successful.
Well a trade does not have to be hard labor. I learned a trade and make over $100,000 a year in Georgia and do no physical labor. I am a linux administrator. The software is free and there are tons of resources online to learn. You just have to pony up $500 for the exam and deal with making less than the experienced guys for a few years. In Georgia less is around $40 to $50k. I am not saying you are wrong because I come from a family of blue collar workers that worked themselves to death as well but there are lots of trades that are not back breaking manual labor. I worked for a University as a linux admin with no tech degree. College is big business these days and there is truth to both sides of the argument. I think folks stuck in crappy blue collar jobs can't see the middle ground and think all the guys with the awesome jobs are loaded with degrees. I assure you it is not the case. There is a governor who may run for president now with no degree.
Very true. My daughter is 20. She started pottery lessons at 13. She is incredibly talented, but knew its a lot to try to earn a living from making $20 mugs. She was hired to teach at 16, apprenticed in the area and learned as much as she could. Got into art school on a full scholarship but knew those were Freshman year bait. She took a few business classes, a web design design class and studied marketing.
My daughter stopped going to school after she felt had a good plan and enough knowledge to build a business on. She was promoted and now runs the pottery shop she used to be a student at. She also has a very successful online shop and side business. She is earning around $30k a year and she is a potter just starting out. It's incredible to see your daughter get paid for "playing in the dirt."
You can learn a trade and turn it into a successful business without destroying yourself. Yes. That said, I don't know that this is what most people have in mind when they suggest someone learn a trade instead of getting a degree. I think what is important is that people learn both sides, the success rates, what it really takes to earn a living wage no matter what path they choose.
I'm not really on the side of either or about college/tradeskill, I feel people need different things. But I've gotten to work on movies(building sets) and remodeling houses when I was younger and had a bunch of friends who work on oil rigs. Now I work commercial maintenance where I'm around nothing but white collar jobbers. The guy from /r/bestof is really taking the worst of the worst about tradeskills but I can honestly say(in my opinion at least) the average white collar worker seems much unhappier than the average blue collar.
I remember getting to joke around and have a bunch of "guy time" on set and remodeling. Every time I go into these corporate buildings to change ceiling tile or whatever it seems they all have a look of defeat on their faces.
It would be interesting to hear some real data as opposed to your anecdotal evidence. I've know a couple of electricians and a carpenter who seemed to live quite nice lives (they are all retired now). The carpenter went into high end cabinetry and did quite well, and the electricians both had union jobs. They also all had the benefit of using their skills/connections on their own homes and thus saving a ton. I'm not saying these are piece-of-cake jobs, but few jobs are. Sitting behind a desk all day and stressing over sales numbers is not exactly healthy either.
Yes, electricians make some serious cash. And they are typically union workers so the work environments and rules around the work they do is significantly improved compared to other blue collar workers.
Carpentry is a difficult business to be highly successful in. Not only do you need excellent skill, but you need to also be a very good businessman/woman to succeed in building a business for yourself. A lot of carpenters don't do this piece well. I have an uncle who was very, very successful at this. He retired at 60, but had so many customers waiting for him that he actually worked another five years just filling orders and doing jobs that his customers were willing to wait for. My brother in law, equally skilled, failed at working for himself and almost lost his home.
Its not as easy as one would like to think. I have a friend who is a plumber. He's now a general contractor and makes huge amounts of money. It can be done, but the work to be successful and the skills needed are much more than "learn a trade" would have you believe.
the work to be successful and the skills needed are much more than "learn a trade" would have you believe.
That is completely true, and I think applies to most all jobs. It is rarely enough to just have one particular skill. You often need to know multiple skills, how to market your skills, organize your work, network, and many other things to be really successful. And if you want to run your own business the requirements just keep pilling up.